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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.04.08 05:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Love this thread!
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.07.05 04:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
haha you killed the thread! In any case, maybe we should start another one for tracking "nerf t2 bpos posts" too, cause there is always a new thread popping up about them as well lol.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.08.03 03:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bumping the thread for Teckos, he has some family issues to attend to so he hasn't been able to keep an eye on his thread.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.11 22:32:00 -
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virgofire wrote:Not even going to read it, are ya?
Sorry I am done responding to you. I prefer Nikk anyway. I feel he is actually working to better the game.
I read it, and I still don't see how it would fix anything other than kill pvp even more. Because if a gang comes in carebears dock up, if an afk cloaker is around you scan him down and kill him then go back to pve/carebearing. It breaks the system so entirely that carebears would literally be nearly invulnerable. 0.0 would become no better than highsec.
What part of Teckos' argument do you inherently disagree with? Because I see much more logic in his ideas, than in yours.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.11 23:04:00 -
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virgofire wrote:Lord Battlestar wrote:virgofire wrote:Not even going to read it, are ya?
Sorry I am done responding to you. I prefer Nikk anyway. I feel he is actually working to better the game. I read it, and I still don't see how it would fix anything other than kill pvp even more. Because if a gang comes in carebears dock up, if an afk cloaker is around you scan him down and kill him then go back to pve/carebearing. It breaks the system so entirely that carebears would literally be nearly invulnerable. 0.0 would become no better than highsec. What part of Teckos' argument do you inherently disagree with? Because I see much more logic in his ideas, than in yours. I don't actually disagree with any of it. What I disagreed with was the complete removal of local, and from there have just been responding to people.
I agree the afk cloaker should be vulnerable too, but both the prey and the hunter should have vulnerability. If you make it too easy to hunt the hunter then the prey won't even be hunted. The problem with the current system is that with instant intel the prey can simply dock up or POS up.
Part of the reason for afk cloakers is that roaming gangs have been rendered mostly useless, cause as soon as one of your ships enters system they dock and POS up (well unless they are stupid). The system must be nerfed or boosted from both sides, to do only one will serve only to break the system further.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.12 04:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
I also want to add that awoxing is also a symptom of the lack of usability of roams, much like the afk cloaker. Because they can't get targets to not POS or dock up in any other way, it is just easier to get a spy alt in the alliance or at least blue to the alliance and then prey on them that way.
I personally see a lot of benefits from the removal of local as an intel tool. Just by setting it delayed can make lag a bit easier. I can't tell you how it can slow things down when local is constantly moving and chatting. In high sec local is not really needed either, because unless you are at war who cares who is in system with you.
I hardly notice who is in system or not. Heck most people use local as a spamming tool and intel tool than actually chatting. If it were set to delayed it wouldn't stop that, but it also wouldn't really hurt anything either. Because in Jita or Amarr, how is a war target going to even know you are there without seeing you directly or using a locator agent. They might not even know what ship you are in, and even in a system with 50 people undocked, it is a tall order to scan someone down if you do not know their exact ship type.
But this is just my opinion...
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.22 04:34:00 -
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The more I read the more I think that the argument of afk cloaking has nothing to do with making pvp better. it has everything to do with making ratting in 100% safety truly possible in null. Because every option I hear from most ardent anti-afk cloakers is nerf cloaking until it is mostly useless (i.e. scanning down cloaks, cloak fuel, cloak timer, etc... ) yet most of those is one sided. It allows you to scan down the cloaker and kill them, but how does it allow the hunter to hunt the intended prey? Roaming gangs are usually impossible because as soon as you get anywhere close anyone with half a brain POSs up and docks up. So you are left with awoxing and afk cloaking.
I believe both sides must be viable. You should be able to rat with the right tactics, but the hunter should be able to hunt too. Both should be able to tactically outsmart each other for the kill or escape. So far most afk cloaker nerf threads I see only "fix" the prey side and do nothing to make hunting easier. In many ways it maxes hunting even harder.
And lets face it, assuming afk cloaking were to get nerfed then all you would see is more awoxing. Especially in alliances with lax recruiting.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.22 07:27:00 -
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Teckos does have a point though, most tactics are thrown out the window with instant intel. Cause if they have half a brain as soon as you enter local and get bearings on anything they are aligning and getting ready for warp. You have no idea where they are warping to so even if you make a line for the station they may have warped elsewhere.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.22 07:41:00 -
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I was referring to the argument above between Andy and Teckos.
In any case afk cloaking is a symptom of a different problem, you take it out it doesn't fix the problem another symptom just takes it's place. So it is a moot point. Is the system broken? Of course it is, but AFK cloaking is just one segment of a much larger issue. I can bet right now that if afk cloaking were nerfed into impossibility tomorrow that tactics would change and then players would be doing something else like awoxing. Because fixing symptoms but ignoring the primary problem resulting in them won't change anything.
Treating afk cloakers separately does nothing, will fix nothing, and will only break a broken system even further.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.28 04:30:00 -
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Vas Eldryn wrote:Teckos, Most of your criticisms claim that idea's given would UNBALANCE the game... what you really mean is REBALANCE one aspect of the game, just not in the direction YOU would like.
I not entirely sure it would rebalanced it. Assuming you completely removed afk cloaking and lets say for the sake of argument awoxing was prevented in some way. How can any opposing force come into a system without having the enemy dock up and POS up?
I am not saying afk cloaking is a good feature or that it isn't broken, but how do you balance a system that totally and unequivocally favors the characters already in system? Why is it that no-one asks why afk cloaking started in the first place? Why is it that people become so interested in one aspect of the game that they refuse to see why it is there in the first place? Why is it that people are so hell bent on keeping active intel that favors the defender and the pver so much that most attackers never even get a chance in system?
I just don't get it. I honestly feel that people are so focused on one problem in the game they refuse to see the bigger picture. They have become so convinced that if we fixed this one problem that everything would be "Leave it to Beaver" style carefree life again in the game. I fervently believe that if afk cloaking were completely eliminated tomorrow that the system would still be unbalanced and likely be even more unbalanced than before.
But I am starting to see why CCP devs are there and not players, cause if players were there this game would be seriously messed up.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.09.29 04:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
I am not saying AFK cloaking should not be discussed. It should by all means be a part of the discussion. However, What I am saying is that we cannot focus on it solely. It is a broken system no doubt, and personally I find AFK cloaking to be dubious in effectiveness in general (Everything has to be in order to get any sort of kill in AFK Cloaking). I also believe that a cloaker should be vulnerable. I am not against the ability to root out a cloaker, but it has to come with compromise. If you make cloaking too impossible then you make covert ops fleets impossible as well.
Andy Landen wrote:
I think that your second quote recognizes why wormholes do not care so much about cloaked stealth bombers; no gates, mass limits to whs, and no cynos. So you didn't mention the first to but they are vital also. Cloaked stealth bombers can be handled much more easily when wh mass limits and cyno restrictions limit the bigger threats from entering. This would also be true in known space, if similar mechanics were in place. Until then, we must know if there is a hostile because the lack of these restrictions makes the potential threat extremely large. It all comes back down to the cyno, even with local in place.
Can I admit that the information in local is useful? Yes. Do I have to do anything in order to benefit from that information? Of course, I do. So I cannot admit that I have nothing to do either in-game or out-of-game with the information. I have to check the character creation date, corp history, and alliance (in game). I have to check the killboards (out of game) for ships, fits, and efficiency. I have to do dscan for ships and probes (in-game). I have to check intel channels (in-game) for fleets and other reports. I have to organize with corp mates for intel and fleet doctrines to match or evade the expected threat. It is most definitely not free, because either I spend all that time researching and countering the hostile, or I have to waste precious time being tied down by the threat (which is still a great cost). And since no threat can be accepted as afk no matter how long they camp a system without decloaking, they must be treated as a cloaky cyno boat ready to pounce at any second with overwhelming force. Some baiting is done with possible active stealth bombers, but the unresponsive, stationary ones must be avoided by moving ops to another system for the duration of their stay. In short, local provides some benefit but it is not free at all.
If there were NO gates, NOR cynos, there would be NO need to move ops to adjacent systems merely because of the presence of a solo stealth bomber.
I do have to agree on much of Andy's post about local. Personally I think the mobile cyno jammer that may come in the winter expansion could be a very effective way to remove the major ability of most afk cloakers anyhow, especially if it will prevent covert cynos as well.
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Lord Battlestar
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Posted - 2013.10.18 05:06:00 -
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Andy Landen wrote:I have been killed and podded in a nanofiber'd velator in Amarr system.
Insta undock bookmarks aren't always insta because of the angle that your ship comes out of the station varies. So it is usually just best to control+space to slow down and dock up as soon as the timer expires.
Heck I have bombed people on undocks before to see them die because they simply refused to dock up or take advantage of their invuln timer.
I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart. |
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